3CCD Cameras

[Bear]

Time to splash out on a new toy.

I'm looking at getting a 3CCD camera and was wondering what the gurus think is a good buy. I've always liked the Panasonics, but Mullet just bought the JVC which looks the goods.

All help appreciated.

Thanks,

[Gundy]

Here you go Bear, some great info.

http://www.pana3ccduser.com/

[Stu_000]

Any reason for going with the mini CD format Bear? I'm pretty taken with the hard drive models especially when the Sony can take 6.1 MP stills as well and about 19 hours of HD footage.

[Bear]

I'm looking for small, broadcast quality cameras Stu. Might even go a step up to one of the Canon models, but want to check out what the newer, smaller 3CCD models are like first.

[Stu_000]

Fair enough but don't discount this option - there is some amazing capability out there with the convienience of a hard drive all in HD

[Bear]

Very true, I'll have to look at some a little closer.

[Stu_000]

This is the Sony I have been looking at and can get it a lot cheaper than this

http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod5102.htm

Also the newer model has a 100Gb HD

HTH

[Dror]

You can still have a 3CCD camera with a hard drive. I recently bought a Panasonic 3CCD camera with 30GB hard drive. There is certainly plenty of recording time and overall the camera is very good. It does lack a bit in the optical zoom department but this was not a huge consideration for what we wanted it for.

Cheers, Dror

[Justin Boyle]

Bear I have a vast knowledge of video cameras but would need a little more information before we look further. How much do you want to spend? Do you want HDef of just SDef? Do you want a small, medium or large camera and anything else you can think of.

Also once you have taken the footage what do you want to do with it? Will you be editing it putting it to dvd leaving it on the tape/camera? Lastly is it just for personal use or are you planning to do productions?

Heck that was a lot of questions.

Justin

[Bear]

Thanks Justin,

Q. How much do you want to spend?

A. up to $3500 if I have to, but less would be nice.

Q. Do you want HDef of just SDef?

A. HDef if I can.

Q. Do you want a small, medium or large camera and anything else you can think of.

A. Small to medium. I'll get the other accessories as I go along.

Q. Will you be editing it putting it to dvd leaving it on the tape/camera?

A. Final product for DVD. Trout Bum sort of thing.

Q. Lastly is it just for personal use or are you planning to do productions?

A. Bit of each, but good enough for basic production with be nice.

[Justin Boyle]

Given your preference for HDef and your budget I think it should be pretty easy to get a shortlist.

http://www.camera-land.com.au/pages/dv_cameras_1080.html

The above link is of the camerahouse that is near campbells pro tackle. They are one of the few places that offer the same prices instore as they do online. If you can't be bothered shopping around take their prices as about rock bottom and work on that. My grandad was looking for a camera in the $2000 range a couple of years back and after him shopping around all the different places around perth I sent him there and he saved around $200.

Of the cameras on the webpage there are three that I would put in "my" shortlist and they are the JVC-HD7 , Canon HV20 & HG10. I wouldn't include the panasonics because their performance would be no different to the JVC but the JVC has more manual features/control.

Basically there are 4 things that differentiate these cameras and those being

1) Full HD vs HD
Full HD resolution is 1920x1080 and the other is 1440x1080. Some people will tell you that this makes quite a difference and that you should get the FullHD camera. Let me tell you now that FullHD in all honesty is just a marketing term. Sure the camera does record in FullHD as apposed to HD but tests show that both the FullHD cameras are no better than the HD camera. Just for reference the HV20 is just HD but the other two are fullHD.

2) HDV vs AVCHD
These are the two compression formats. HDV is the compression format that is used on all consumer cameras that use tapes. AVCHD is used on cameras that use DVD's, HDD's and memory cards. HDV is by no means a perfect format as there are quite often compression artifacts in some of the footage. It is however acceptable. AVCHD however has had problems. Reports show that the format is improving but it is nowhere near there. The advantage of the format is that the bit rate is less meaning that you can record more footage. As a guide a minidv tape as used in HDV will record 1 hour of footage. A minidv has the equivelant of about 15gb of data. In comparison the HG-10 footage is about 7.3gb per hour. The trade off for this is the loss of quality. The other downside is that AVCHD is a format that doesn't have any set standard so each manufacturer sets it up differently. This means that in some cases there are compatability issues. A lot of video editing software is only just starting to catch up and include avchd as a format that is compatible. HDV on the other hand is widely used and is a very stable platform. Editing AVCHD is also a lot harder on your PC because it is compressed so heavily.

3) Tape vs HDD
Alot of people are moving to HDD and there are advantages. Everytime you click record the camera will create a new file so when you go to import footage from your camera to your computer you simply go grab it. A tape on the other hand will need you to fastforward it to the point you want and download it to the computer. For each minute of footage it will take a minute to import it to your computer. On the other hand a Harddrive will transfer it as quick as the camera and computer can handle. This I imagine would take less than half the time. A lot of people also don't like the idea of have heaps of tapes lying around because they cost money. I personally would prefer tapes. They cost around $5 and in the grand scheme of things they are cheap and reliable. The biggest concern with a HDD is that they are very fragile. If you drop a camera with a tape it will probably break it and you will be up for a new one but you will still have your tape and your footage. If you drop a camera with a hdd you will still be up for a new camera but you will also lose all your footage and if your HDD is full on the canon for example that could be between 5 and 15 hours of footage.

4) 3CCD vs single CMOS
I have always been a fan of 3ccd. I have always believed that it is better. The big draw card is more accurate colors. I have however had to eat humble pie. Since the Canon cmos HDef cameras have come on the market they have started quite a stir. Tests show that the HV20 colors rival those of the 3ccd cameras. With that aside the biggest thing that separates the two is the low light performance. 3ccd cameras in the consumer market generally have very small ccd's. The JVC's are 1/5inch. The canon CMOS on the other hand are 1/2.7inch. The general rule is that the larger the sensor the better the low light performance. If you look at the reviews the single ccd/cmos cameras outperform the 3 chip ones by a long way.


My choice would be the HV20. If you wanted a HDD camera then you would have to choice either of the other two. I would have no preference of the other two. I think the two Canons lack a lot of manual control but because of the quality of the picture out of the box for the two I doubt you would need to change much. The JVC is definately the best looking camera on the market in my opinion and to some people that bears some weight. It would also be the largest too I think which means it might be slightly better if spending most of its life off the tripod and in your hand. They all however have image stabilisers so this will help.


Sorry about the long winded reply Bear but I hope it is of use.


http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...JVC-GZ-HD7.htm

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...view-33146.htm

[Bear]

Justin,
That is exactly the sort of info I'm after. Thank you very much for your effort. I'm not stressed about the tape side of things, always good to have a back-up, and I'm curious to see your opinion on the HV20 vs 3CCD, sounds like it's come a long way.

I'll drop in and see the guys, thanks again. I owe you a beer.

[Bear]

Shopbot price comparisions:

http://www.shopbot.com.au/p-54033.html

[Justin Boyle]

Originally Posted by Bear

Shopbot price comparisions:

http://www.shopbot.com.au/p-54033.html

Use online prices as bargaining chips but your always best to buy local. Add into the fact that you have to pay postage and the gap soon closes in the price. Most online stores have return to base warranty and this means you will have to pay postage again and the down time will be more. The other thing you have to be careful of is that a lot of the online stores bring their cameras in from hong kong or other countries. Often they are ntsc not pal. They will work but your best to get the local standard being pal. I haven't shopped around for a while so I'm not sure what each of the cameras are worth so can't say if the prices at leederville were good but it has been my experience that their prices are very competitive.

I love the canon. As i said earlier I always would have chosen 3ccd but the proof is in the pudding. I would love the JVC to be the best camera of the lot but the sample footage/pictures from both these cameras indicate that the canon is the benchmark. I would trust camcorderinfo.com as they generally have unbiased reviews. I admit that they really do have a soft spot for the hv20 but it seems that most of their tests they do have a set criteria which is very hard to ignore so their conclusions and results should be quite standardised.

Best of luck

Justin

P.S. you don't owe me a beer. Forum's are all about helping each other out and i'm sure you will give me equally good advice on something I know a little less about (probably fishing).

[Justin Boyle]

http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod4776.htm

I like the sound of these guys. The warranty is through canon australia so it is obviously an australian product.