Can Bream See all the Colours of the Rainbow

[yellow door 1]

I know its been asked before but I havent read a definitive answer.

Do Australian Bream see in colour or is it more like black and white?

[phil jagger]

Someone needs to do a cone and rod check on old acanthopagrus little beadies.

[phil jagger]

found this.

http://www.breammaster.com/forum/arc...hp/t-5391.html

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/205/23/3661.full

Yeah fish eyes!

[yellow door 1]

Originally Posted by phil jagger

found this.

http://www.breammaster.com/forum/arc...hp/t-5391.html

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/205/23/3661.full

Yeah fish eyes!

Sweet - Thanks Phil - I did a quick search using the word "Spectrum" but didnt come up with much

Some interesting points raised

"The material is available from the WA Univ Library if people are interested but in plain english the fish is a blue/green dichromat, it sees in the blue green region and does not see reds, or any colour that is a RBG mix. That doesn't mean that it doesn't see things clearly but it sees the surrounds in that blue green. The easy way to understand this is to get a picture of a underwater view, as you see it, clear shallow water is best, seperate the RGB channels, reduce the red channel to black and re combine the channels. You will notice the lack of colours like orange, yellow, violet and indigo and of course red. You will note that fluorescent chartruse is very prominent, since yellow is green and red and a very bright mix so that it ends up chartruse or a very bright green. You will also notice that flash is very apparent due to a lot of grating light beams which tend to highlight bright areas of little fish. Black is also very obvious and when you add dirty water it becomes more obvious that black and chartruse are very visible but colours attenuate rapidly due to the dark water colour.
The fish will not see Violet, indigo, orange, yellow or red. Nor will it see pink, white will be blue, red will be black. If thyat doesn't get you thinking, then I give up The pic is a fly with useful attractions. Its a NSW designed spinner bait, and deadly on fresh water yellows. Be great for bream, big ones at that. It gets 13lb yellows. Max."

"well the fish is a blue/green dichromat, it doesn't have a red sensing cone in the retina. This means that colours which are red mix, or those colours which have a red input are not seen as you would see them.
You can simulate this by putting a piece of blue blastic over your eyes and looking at a in bloom garden. One full of colour. Thats the best way I know of describing it, other than getting very serious.
Red appears black, white becomes blue, black is black, orange is green, yellow is green, in fact chartruse is very bright green/yellow so chartruse ends up bright green. Gold for example is green and red, at least when you seperate gold into the RGB layers and get rid of red it ends up green, but thats not all of the story. Gold flashes in the underwater light beams, and those flashes are still there, so gold has flash, wheras other colours may not.
Pink is a very light violet, red/blue so it ends up bright blue, as does white.
But in dirty water when light attenuation may be extreme the fish will be in grey scale mode, and then it would see only the brightness and contrast of colours. So far as I can find out the best colours for bream are black and gold. But I would use one with flash as well because it attracts fish.
A friend of mine made this for Golden Perch, works a treat. Probably would go well on bream. Its 1/0. Max
14-03-2004, 07:30 AM
PS I'm not the slightest bit interested in fishing for bream, but I am interested in what they see and the fact that they are blue/green dichromats is very interesting. Could be more estuary species like that, the dark water types. But most of that type are pelagics like tuna, mahimahi mackerels and marlins. Which, considering that red is not around in the deep blue ocean is probably what they should be. And which definitely interest me.
A lot of research on fish vision is going on over here, because the WA Univ has a microspectrophotometer, which is the only machine people can use to pick up the colour pigments on the tips of the retinal rods and cones. So I guess a WA Swan river black bream was a prime candidate for research. I just thought you blokes might be interested. You should get the paper (s) on the subject.Max"

[Hardb8]

Originally Posted by yellow door 1

Sweet - Thanks Phil - I did a quick search using the word "Spectrum" but didnt come up with much

Some interesting points raised

"The material is available from the WA Univ Library if people are interested but in plain english the fish is a blue/green dichromat, it sees in the blue green region and does not see reds, or any colour that is a RBG mix. That doesn't mean that it doesn't see things clearly but it sees the surrounds in that blue green. The easy way to understand this is to get a picture of a underwater view, as you see it, clear shallow water is best, seperate the RGB channels, reduce the red channel to black and re combine the channels. You will notice the lack of colours like orange, yellow, violet and indigo and of course red. You will note that fluorescent chartruse is very prominent, since yellow is green and red and a very bright mix so that it ends up chartruse or a very bright green. You will also notice that flash is very apparent due to a lot of grating light beams which tend to highlight bright areas of little fish. Black is also very obvious and when you add dirty water it becomes more obvious that black and chartruse are very visible but colours attenuate rapidly due to the dark water colour.
The fish will not see Violet, indigo, orange, yellow or red. Nor will it see pink, white will be blue, red will be black. If thyat doesn't get you thinking, then I give up The pic is a fly with useful attractions. Its a NSW designed spinner bait, and deadly on fresh water yellows. Be great for bream, big ones at that. It gets 13lb yellows. Max."

"well the fish is a blue/green dichromat, it doesn't have a red sensing cone in the retina. This means that colours which are red mix, or those colours which have a red input are not seen as you would see them.
You can simulate this by putting a piece of blue blastic over your eyes and looking at a in bloom garden. One full of colour. Thats the best way I know of describing it, other than getting very serious.
Red appears black, white becomes blue, black is black, orange is green, yellow is green, in fact chartruse is very bright green/yellow so chartruse ends up bright green. Gold for example is green and red, at least when you seperate gold into the RGB layers and get rid of red it ends up green, but thats not all of the story. Gold flashes in the underwater light beams, and those flashes are still there, so gold has flash, wheras other colours may not.
Pink is a very light violet, red/blue so it ends up bright blue, as does white.
But in dirty water when light attenuation may be extreme the fish will be in grey scale mode, and then it would see only the brightness and contrast of colours. So far as I can find out the best colours for bream are black and gold. But I would use one with flash as well because it attracts fish.
A friend of mine made this for Golden Perch, works a treat. Probably would go well on bream. Its 1/0. Max
14-03-2004, 07:30 AM
PS I'm not the slightest bit interested in fishing for bream, but I am interested in what they see and the fact that they are blue/green dichromats is very interesting. Could be more estuary species like that, the dark water types. But most of that type are pelagics like tuna, mahimahi mackerels and marlins. Which, considering that red is not around in the deep blue ocean is probably what they should be. And which definitely interest me.
A lot of research on fish vision is going on over here, because the WA Univ has a microspectrophotometer, which is the only machine people can use to pick up the colour pigments on the tips of the retinal rods and cones. So I guess a WA Swan river black bream was a prime candidate for research. I just thought you blokes might be interested. You should get the paper (s) on the subject.Max"

A very very interesting read. I too have always researched, and been interested in what, and how fish see. Great knowledge to have in your arsenal.

Thanks for taking the time to type all of this up. The best post I've read on this site so far, by far.

Cheers. B8.

[stella fella]

My question is can we see all the colours of the rainbow?

[Breamobsession]

Like a lot of blokes i'm pretty colour blind so probably not

[stella fella]

It's hard to imagine the colours we cant see.

[Breamobsession]

Originally Posted by stella fella

It's hard to imagine the colours we cant see.

Stop trying to imagine it then You are fighting an up hill battle by trying mate, its pretty much impossible isn't it???? How can you imagine something that you don't know exists???? It's enough to drive you insane!!!!

[stella fella]

lol yeah I don't know if it is even possible to imagine a colour that doesn't exist.I think my head would explode first.