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  #31  
Old 27-12-2017, 04:19 AM
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Micro module gearing is the biggest planned obsolescence rort
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  #32  
Old 27-12-2017, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by kolp View Post
Micro module gearing is the biggest planned obsolescence rort
The micro module gearing is only in the oscillation drive that runs the worm drive off the main gear and pinion.

Not the actual drive and pinion.

Planned obsolescence hmm yeh plenty of other things go before that...
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  #33  
Old 27-12-2017, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Slazmo View Post
The micro module gearing is only in the oscillation drive that runs the worm drive off the main gear and pinion.

Not the actual drive and pinion.

Planned obsolescence hmm yeh plenty of other things go before that...
Bollocks, spreading more misinformation as usual


http://fishing.shimano.co.jp/product...n02_img_02.jpg
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Last edited by kolp; 27-12-2017 at 07:39 AM.
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  #34  
Old 27-12-2017, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kolp View Post
Bollocks, spreading more misinformation as usual


http://fishing.shimano.co.jp/product...n02_img_02.jpg
Not sure what the gears from the 2013 Metanium have to do with the Stella? Nor am I sure what you mean by the terms "misinformation" or "as usual"?
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  #35  
Old 27-12-2017, 08:07 PM
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Did you see the pic of the Stella gears below (uploaded as an attachment)?

My example is to show that micro module is indeed on the main gear and pinion of Shimano's spinning reels and baitcasters . Contrary to Slazmo's claim that micromodule is only on the oscillation gears.

Misinformation as in Slazmo's typical bold claims to defend Shimano that are sometimes not based on fact eg- disputing the fact that Shimano only puts their "true" floating shaft feature on the Stella (and now the new Exsence LB) when he simply did not understand what constituted the "true" floating shaft feature (bearing in the rotor nut to isolate the main shaft from the inside of the pinion, with the aim of reducing rotational friction under load)



Last edited by kolp; 27-12-2017 at 08:16 PM.
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  #36  
Old 27-12-2017, 08:21 PM
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A mechanical engineer's view on micromodule gearing-

"...Typically more gear teeth with smaller flanks/chordal pitch dimensions are more likely to shear. While you do generate much smoother gearing, the material used has to be much different. Notice the pressure angle of the gear teeth (flanks) on the pinion with the new design also. The increased angle (as opposed to the older gear set) will also smooth out the reel. This will generate more of a lead in with the gearing, but lubrication will be much more critical. These reels will require maintenance more often due to the friction seen by the gears. The increased contact angle (skew) will pull lubrication out of the gear teeth and smaller particulate will effect the smoothness of the newer gear set more than the previous design....

....There are two major issues with using smaller gear teeth for durability.

1. There is less material to wear. While there are more teeth, the increased contact angle means the teeth slide as the main gear and pinion turn. Friction with metal parts means they are wear items.

2. Smaller teeth withstand lower amounts of stress so if one fails, you will shear multiple teeth. The amount of material with the two teeth appears to be much more substantial than the 5 teeth. This is why Abu experienced failures with the original C4 gearing. Thinner teeth to establish higher speeds meant that the gears failed. Failed gearing does not always mean catastrophic, but roughly meshing gears would also be considered a failure.

Example of stress that could shear gear teeth: Hookset, freeing snags with locked drag, reel engaging on the cast, etc. Braided line would only add to the failures listed above....

....smaller teeth have less material to wear before they reach the critical point at which they must be replaced. Larger flanks mean more interference. While you may have more teeth meshed together, not all of them are loaded equally due to approach angles. Having an increased contact angle will cause the gears to wear more than the previous design. Shimano will have to use a much different material if durability was one of their design criteria with this type of gearing...."



And as a side note I would like to add that servicing reels does not make you an expert on engineering design and principles. Servicing reels is not a difficult thing to do for anyone with a bit of mechanical aptitude.

Last edited by kolp; 27-12-2017 at 08:24 PM.
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  #37  
Old 27-12-2017, 08:40 PM
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Shimano use the term "micro module" pretty broadly, they seem to use it to refer to their new system as a whole. The new Stella's main gear is slightly larger and has broader teeth than the previous models, but doesn't really interact with the rest of the system any differently to what it did previously. The change to the oscillation system, however, is very distinct and utilities gearing that very obviously fits the term "micro module", which is what I think Slaz is getting at.
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  #38  
Old 27-12-2017, 08:41 PM
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Honestly, Kolp, why don't you just pluck up the courage and ask him out already?
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  #39  
Old 27-12-2017, 08:46 PM
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So we're talking about a trade off here right (smoothness vs robustness), rather than a gimmick/'obsolescence rort'?

Design for the 90%? (say people who fish every weekend or less often)
99%?
100%? (say people who fish every day/charter operators)?

Where do you think the line should be drawn?
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  #40  
Old 27-12-2017, 08:55 PM
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A bit of banter...Bm is back! And for what it's worth, I reckon the new Stella is schmick
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  #41  
Old 27-12-2017, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayman View Post
So we're talking about a trade off here right (smoothness vs robustness), rather than a gimmick/'obsolescence rort'?

Design for the 90%? (say people who fish every weekend or less often)
99%?
100%? (say people who fish every day/charter operators)?

Where do you think the line should be drawn?
Ok, I agree with this post. It is a matter of opinion how you value micromodule gearing. Personally if I am spending big dollars on a reel I place durability higher than a marginal increase in smoothness.

Shimano sometimes chooses questionable designs when it comes to durability. Look at the Antares DC and '17 Exsence DC - both have wiffle spools which allows water to travel down the spool shaft right into the spool support bearings and DC unit. If you want to remove the spool for cleaning you have to unscrew and remove the DC unit. Another example is the Trinidad A series - you have to dismantle the whole reel in order to take out the spool as there is no removable sideplate on the clicker side of the reel.

Last edited by kolp; 27-12-2017 at 09:14 PM.
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  #42  
Old 27-12-2017, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kolp View Post
Ok, I agree with this post. It is a matter of opinion how you value micromodule gearing. Personally if I am spending big dollars on a reel I place durability higher than a marginal increase in smoothness.
There's going to be a point at which any gear, micro module or not, will fail. The only question here is: Have Shimano made their micro module gears strong enough to withstand the forces exerted upon them within reason i.e. Have you seen any gear failures in the Stella FI?
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  #43  
Old 27-12-2017, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
A bit of banter...Bm is back! And for what it's worth, I reckon the new Stella is schmick
Haha it's always fun prodding the Shimano fanboys, they seem to really get butthurt.

And I think the new Stella looks great too, despite the micromodule gears and (likely) magnesium frame. Probably won't buy one though...
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  #44  
Old 27-12-2017, 09:36 PM
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Honestly, Kolp, why don't you just pluck up the courage and ask him out already?
I am already accounted for...plus I am not that way inclined. You should go for it though, we now have marriage equality if that is your thing!
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  #45  
Old 27-12-2017, 10:36 PM
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I am already accounted for...plus I am not that way inclined. You should go for it though, we now have marriage equality if that is your thing!
I'll try anything 2-3 times.
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