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Old 05-06-2018, 07:21 AM
Cortinaboy Cortinaboy is offline
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Falling fish stocks

I recall a debate on here a while back about marine parks. I should disclose that Iíve always been a supporter, but I still think this is an interesting report on fish stocks falling everywhere except marine parks.

https://www.theage.com.au/environmen...05-p4zjip.html
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  #2  
Old 05-06-2018, 07:41 PM
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I can remember years ago when the Marine Parks Advisory Committee called for a public response to their proposed new marine parks. I should have known better than to respond, as it was certainly just a public relations ploy.

The closest surf beach to my home is the Point Addis beach. It just so happens this was the best surf fishing beach on the entire surf coast. It's now a marine national park with no fishing from the beach or from a boat. At a public meeting, I asked the representative of the Marine Parks Advisory Committee why they had to choose the only decent surf fishing beach along the entire coast to make a marine national park and what made it so special, compared to other areas. Their answer blew me away. They said it was declared a marine national park because it was a popular fishing beach and for no other reason. This is their mentality.

My personal stance on marine national parks is that they're not necessary except for truly exceptional areas. Sustainability of fish stocks can be had with appropriate regulations and the strict enforcement of those regulations, without the need of additional poorly maintained marine national parks.
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Old 05-06-2018, 07:46 PM
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So since the Marine parks have been implemented - there has been a 36% drop in large fish caught on other reefs. I knew marine parks were a bad idea
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:43 PM
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Don't know much about other states but the Vic marine parks was a massive stitchup by activists. Parks, Fisheries, Govt depts full of green extremists doing as they please. No minutes were taken at any of the meetings and the 4,500 submissions, together with the 14,500 other written protests, were discounted! ie the result was already decided and no amount of common sense was going to dissuade the ideologues.

They imported overseas scientists who were compromised through their receipt of incomplete and biased briefs. These scientists, whilst prepared to give well founded praise to the excellent multi-use Australian Great Barrier Marine Park were persuaded to support the totally different and inappropriate Victorian Ďhighly protectedí legislation. When well respected Australian marine scientists from both the Federal and State arenas, questioned the Victorian policy their input was ignored and degraded. Meanwhile, pop singers and the like, were given free access to the media to air their support.
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:03 AM
Cortinaboy Cortinaboy is offline
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Accepting all the stories about the problems with how the policy was put together doesn’t change the fact that fishing stocks are going down everywhere except in these zones. Of course there should be multi use areas too and more money to enforce existing rules, but I think it’s a good thing there’s areas that will be as pristine as we can possibly get them. I know from spearfishing how depleted areas are compared to a few decades ago and I don’t get the impression it’s any better in most other areas. Sure there are exceptions like snapper coming back in Port Philip bay but overall it seems to be mostly worse than it was, so although there might be faults with the marine parks, there’s a lot of good with them too.

Last edited by Cortinaboy; 06-06-2018 at 04:57 AM.
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:37 PM
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Ian Sewell Ian Sewell is offline
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I think I would take more notice of ABARES than some one eyed green group. You can get whatever results you want as long as you word what you are looking for well enough, especially through questionnaires.
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:35 PM
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I agree with your post Ian. A couple of decades ago i got caught up in the making of Cook Island at the Tweed a sanctuary zone; as fisho's we were overrun by supposed science and a well funded green group. Today it is for skin divers only. Years later while living in Bundaberg i made the unfortunate decision to enter into the Snapper science thing after being told it will help everyone. What a load of BS we were fed, the Great Sandy Marine Park followed almost joining the southern extremity of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park. Following that decision i refused to divulge any information on my Snapper catches to the volunteer fish management people waiting at the ramp.
Science is needed to improve fish catches for everyone but it has to be governed and regulated by non lobbied fair dinkum scientists who want the best outcomes for the fish and the public not self interested parties.
Now we have retired to Port Macquarie where the Hastings River has been a declared Recreational Fishermen only river for about 30 years; what a joy i only hope it lasts long enough to see me out.
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:07 AM
Cortinaboy Cortinaboy is offline
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Glad to stimulate some debate. I’m actually a scientist (nothing to do with fisheries) and I honestly find it strange that people would decide not to help scientists find out about fish stocks in case the outcome doesn’t suit them. The latest report didn’t rely on questionnaires though. It was first hand observation of the fish. The facts are that fish stocks keep falling, so if the status quo continues, there will be less places to fish anyway. It’s disappointing people actually believe scientists are in cahoots together to achieve a political outcome, green or otherwise. Rest assured that one of the best ways for a scientist to boost their career is to find something new about what they are studying. This means proving something that others have not seen or understood and not just confirming what others are saying. Therefore, if most scientists agree on something, it doesn’t mean they’ve all gathered in a darkened room to come up with a bullishit story; it means different scientific groups have looked at the issue and come to the same conclusion.

Last edited by Cortinaboy; 07-06-2018 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Sewell View Post
I think I would take more notice of ABARES than some one eyed green group. You can get whatever results you want as long as you word what you are looking for well enough, especially through questionnaires.
The opinion poll bit starts at 0.30

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Old 12-06-2018, 08:40 AM
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Bobby Bass Bobby Bass is offline
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If 80% of the scientists doing the research are not high level or extreme greens I will eat my hat. I have met them and talked to some for work. Thatís why they do what they do for work. They have a passion for it.Do I think some have a bias towards their own views....probably in all honesty.

Wait for the lefties to come after me for saying it. You know itís true I am a white straight male too, you are allowed to hate me.
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:12 PM
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It seems a lot of people on this board don't know what science is. Science is the best way of understanding stuff that people have ever invented. If anybody here can suggest a way to further remove bias from the research methodology, scientists want to hear from you.

As mentioned previously, science is a competitive field. Most researchers are on fixed term employment and need to be competitive to keep jobs. The best way to do this is to overturn existing hypothesise by presenting new and contradictory evidence that is better supported than the existing. There is a strong publishing bias that reflects this, with papers supporting existing notions less likely to be published than those contrasting. And yet all agree...

The idea that the scientists who do critical research are more biased than the recreational fishermen on this board is an absolute joke. Seriously think about that one guys.

So what do we know?
*Fish stocks are absolutely and catastrophically declining worldwide
*Australian fish stocks are declining for most species, though our reserves and pro fishing quotas are responsible for us having a much slower decline than the rest of the world
*Trends and projections show a clear decline of fish into the future and a simultaneous increase in fishing pressure
*This trend will continue unless changes are made

We know this. It is happening. It's not disputed by anybody in the know.

We, of all people, should be concerned.

Last edited by Joely; 12-06-2018 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 13-06-2018, 03:08 AM
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"Corruption in Science" gets 282,000 hits on youtube and 143,000,000 hits on google.

So its not just Bream Master members who have concerns
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Old 13-06-2018, 03:34 AM
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Peter Hannam, who wrote the original article, has been accused of media beat ups and being alarmist in the past


http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/tra...s/s4485599.htm
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  #14  
Old 17-06-2018, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow door 1 View Post
"Corruption in Science" gets 282,000 hits on youtube and 143,000,000 hits on google.

So its not just Bream Master members who have concerns
How many hits does Flat Earth get?

Scientists consistently rank in the top most trusted professions. A lot of the talk about corruption in science comes from talk back radio hosts which rank near the bottom; below lawyers but just above car salesmen.

That's not to say there's not dodgy science out there. There most certainly is. But falling fish stocks is a very well understood phenomenon both globally and locally.

By the way, Peter Hannam is a newspaper journalist which ranks somewhere between lawyer and car salesman. I think your qualms are better placed with him than the scientists who would also be agitated by his reporting.

Personally I don't think I'm being an alarmist. Perhaps a concernist?

Last edited by Joely; 18-06-2018 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 18-06-2018, 12:34 AM
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What part of the science or the function of marine parks do you guys object to?
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