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12V, 24V, 240V How to power, what to power. Lights, solar, what's around to make it more comfy.



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  #1  
Old 12-08-2013, 04:22 AM
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scubascott scubascott is offline
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Anyone using a solar panel?

The time has come to get rid of my simple Redarc SBI12 dual battery isolator and upgrade to something capable of solar input. Anyone have a Redarc 1225/1240 or a Ctek dual d250S? After opinions on which way to go or if there is another option. Also install tips (under bonnet/ battery type etc)The salesman for both have been nothing short of useless so I'm 50/50 on which one.
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:25 AM
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I ended up going for a 120V portable version so I could take it camping and plug it into my ArkPak, I'm then not reliant on car for power.
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Old 12-08-2013, 06:09 AM
lukereneeseth lukereneeseth is offline
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depends mate. what is it you have already? and what is it you need to upgrade for? The old saying; if it aint broke don't fix it may apply here.

I'll assume you already have a 100-110amp battery under the bonnet to the redarc isolator. If you just want the solar option for periods of no driving keep what is already working where it is and get a decent MPPT solar regulator, some 6 B&S twin cable and a simple folding/portable 120w panel off eebay (they've come a looooong way in the last 6 years in quality and price). That way nothing need be fixed/installed and you can keep your rig in the shade yet have the panel 6 meters out in the sun.

To the dc - dc chargers; they're designed for the caravanning market where voltage drops over long distances become a problem (having the extra battery/s 3+ meters from the main battery). Their primary advantage is being able to boost the current while keeping wiring to a reasonable size. Even for this to be beneficial the system still has to be mounted no further than .5m from the aux battery - it will boost the V to the system but will not boost the V from the system to the battery.

C-tek v's Redarc is like Shimano v's Daiwa, there is no real winner or looser. They both do exactly what they're intended for however, the ctek only comes in 20amp and the bcdc comes in 06/20/25/40amp variations. You will also note the substantial price difference and to get a redarc bcdc1225 fitted and installed your looking at $1200 - $1500. Compare that to the Solar addition to the system you already have @ around $300 - $500.

Advantage no.2 of the dc-dc is in most cases it will deliver 100% battery full a hell of a lot quicker than the isolator you already have (unless you do a good 6 odd hours constant driving with no draw, your aux battery will hover around 80 - 90%). Which has never been a problem for anyone anyway as the isolator via alternator can reach this point a lot quicker than the dc-dc can.

Which leads to what kind of driving you do? I'm fine with the ctek 250s dual because I drive a minimum 1 hour to work and then back in the arvo. Just running the waeco 35 I put in more than what comes out during the day. If your powering a larger fridge/freezer and do a lot less driving than that you would have to get the bcdc1225 at a bare minimum; better the 1240. (these are the only 2 with the solar option anyway)

Battery wise you'd never put an AGM under the bonnet anyway, despite the good marketing ploy you will get about them; a 100AH Century deep cycle will charge a lot quicker, last a lot longer and cost a lot less. I've had mine running my waeco 24/7 for the past 3 years with no sign of luster lost. (needless to say the waeco is in the shop getting a new thermistor as I write this).

If you give some details of:
Where your mounting the 2nd battery
Where you want to mount the system
Why you need the upgrade
What you want to run from the battery (max and constant) etc

I can help you out a lot. I've gathered a lot of info on this topic over the past 4 years. As you'd probly already know, type is ctek v's redarc in google and its a mine field of debates.
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Old 12-08-2013, 03:55 PM
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scubascott scubascott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukereneeseth View Post
depends mate. what is it you have already? and what is it you need to upgrade for? The old saying; if it aint broke don't fix it may apply here.

I'll assume you already have a 100-110amp battery under the bonnet to the redarc isolator. If you just want the solar option for periods of no driving keep what is already working where it is and get a decent MPPT solar regulator, some 6 B&S twin cable and a simple folding/portable 120w panel off eebay (they've come a looooong way in the last 6 years in quality and price). That way nothing need be fixed/installed and you can keep your rig in the shade yet have the panel 6 meters out in the sun.

To the dc - dc chargers; they're designed for the caravanning market where voltage drops over long distances become a problem (having the extra battery/s 3+ meters from the main battery). Their primary advantage is being able to boost the current while keeping wiring to a reasonable size. Even for this to be beneficial the system still has to be mounted no further than .5m from the aux battery - it will boost the V to the system but will not boost the V from the system to the battery.

C-tek v's Redarc is like Shimano v's Daiwa, there is no real winner or looser. They both do exactly what they're intended for however, the ctek only comes in 20amp and the bcdc comes in 06/20/25/40amp variations. You will also note the substantial price difference and to get a redarc bcdc1225 fitted and installed your looking at $1200 - $1500. Compare that to the Solar addition to the system you already have @ around $300 - $500.

Advantage no.2 of the dc-dc is in most cases it will deliver 100% battery full a hell of a lot quicker than the isolator you already have (unless you do a good 6 odd hours constant driving with no draw, your aux battery will hover around 80 - 90%). Which has never been a problem for anyone anyway as the isolator via alternator can reach this point a lot quicker than the dc-dc can.

Which leads to what kind of driving you do? I'm fine with the ctek 250s dual because I drive a minimum 1 hour to work and then back in the arvo. Just running the waeco 35 I put in more than what comes out during the day. If your powering a larger fridge/freezer and do a lot less driving than that you would have to get the bcdc1225 at a bare minimum; better the 1240. (these are the only 2 with the solar option anyway)

Battery wise you'd never put an AGM under the bonnet anyway, despite the good marketing ploy you will get about them; a 100AH Century deep cycle will charge a lot quicker, last a lot longer and cost a lot less. I've had mine running my waeco 24/7 for the past 3 years with no sign of luster lost. (needless to say the waeco is in the shop getting a new thermistor as I write this).

If you give some details of:
Where your mounting the 2nd battery
Where you want to mount the system
Why you need the upgrade
What you want to run from the battery (max and constant) etc

I can help you out a lot. I've gathered a lot of info on this topic over the past 4 years. As you'd probly already know, type is ctek v's redarc in google and its a mine field of debates.
It sure is a google minefield, the salesman are just as bad too. Seems most of the opinions come from people who don't own one too so its good to get the opinion of someone who actually owns one. To answer your questions:
1- Currently have a Century Marinepro 720 (100aH) mounted under the bonnet
2- Ill mount it in the engine bay depending on the temps it can tolerate, otherwise it will be on the other side of the firewall.
3- the Redarc SBI12 has discharged my cranking battery twice in the last 3 months. I cant get it to fail when I energise it on a 12V power supply but it is definitely playing up and time to be replaced. Don't mind spending the extra $2-300 on something that incorporates solar too.
4- Main load is a 40lt fridge (plus a second 40lt fridge run as a freezer on longer trips) I also use a 600W inverter occasionally. Plus the usual lights, compressor, water pump etc intermittently.

The best I've seen the Ctek for is $239, the 1225 was $310 and 1240 was $390. Im happy to install it all myself. I drive a 1:15 round trip to work every day so that gives the batteries a good charge. I would like the solar so I can sit for a week or so without running out of fridge power. I don't want to carry a generator if I can avoid it so I was looking to solar. I wouldn't be using the freezer in this situation to reduce the current draw on the battery. I calculated out my daily amps draw but I cant find it now. It was surprising though, and would need a large solar panel to keep up.
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  #5  
Old 13-08-2013, 01:33 AM
lukereneeseth lukereneeseth is offline
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sweet. well the redarc would be your best bet. It seems to tolerate temps a hell of a lot better than the ctek. you wouldn't need solar with your usual rescheme using the 1225. But to run the second fridge on camping trips and a few other bits and pieces you'd definitely need a absolute minimum 120w panel.

Another idea for you which is what I do, set your car up with the bcdc1225. When I go on trips that require the extra juice I have a 85ah deep cycle at home in a standard battery box which I mounted a 6 way fuse box under the lid. Ran 2 ciga, 1 merit and 2 andersons out the top. If you take that aswell you can run a fridge and lighting off that (battery box's will take up to 110ah battery) and then already know the limits on your setup running the car fridge. plenty of options to charge both out camping also. alternate solar panel every day, have 6 b&s cable with alligator clip one end for main batt and Anderson the other for battery box, charge both while car is on, etc.

but if you have the money to mount a panel to your roof than in a perfect world that is your best and less worry/maintenance free option.... BUT, running a fridge and separate freezer and a bit of other gear on a 100ah battery I personally wouldn't do (hence why I have the portable box also).
My batt has lasted a lot longer than most because 1. ive never taken it under 50% 2. I have 20amp charge (in the real world more like 10 -18a/h). Its all good and well having the 1240 but the slower you can recharge 99% off deep cycle batteries the longer they will last.

Im not sure how much you would draw between last current received (with solar maybe 3-4pm max in summer, via dc-dc well last drive I guess) and 1st current accepting (maybe 7-8am in summer)

I can only assume the fridge would draw 1 - 2amps and the freezer 1-4amp (so many variations and what ifs on that though) Inverter well how long is a piece of string with that. All I know on that is if it requires heat then your up the creek without a paddle ie. a hair drier will rip your 100ah battery to zero in a few minutes. So you have minimum 12 hours there where you may not be putting charge into the aux. Of course you could run the car at night or in the morning, but these are all the things you want to avoid and get right the 1st time.

But yeah I think for extended trips the main thing is what you can get into the battery/s when you're stationary.

If I were in your situation i'd do 1 of 2 things:
1. get the bcdc1225 and install it. (around 25A while driving) put a 120w panel on the roof or get a folding kit (around 6A while stationary) I'd got the folding kit though because you don't need it while driving and when stationary you can park the car in the shade and run the panel out into the sun, you can also angle it and move it around every few hours as the sun comes up and goes down (this should adequately keep your battery over 95% as the draw from the 40l fridge and 40l freezer realistically should only be drawing 5A per hour combined in the shade ((depending on factors you'd already know)) ).
2. Get the bcdc1225 and install it. 120-200w portable solar kit. 100AH deep cycle in a battery box. Run freezer and lights off this and solar charge during the day. car aux battery can run the fridge and inverter. You can always switch, chop and change the way you charge very easily by having an Anderson plug @ the solar in on the BCDC and Anderson plug on the out of the solar regulator. This would be the best option as its 200AH v's 100AH.

Hope this has helped in some way.
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Old 13-08-2013, 06:22 AM
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scubascott scubascott is offline
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Yeah I read that the Ctek charge drops right off to a few amps when it gets hot. I put the fluke multimeter temp probe in the engine bay today on the way to work and it was surprising how warm it was. The spot I had in mind for it was in the low 60 degrees. It was as far away from the turbo as I could get it but I didn't expect it to be so hot.

I had considered using the 120aH AGM that powers my ipilot as an alternate power source too. I could put it in the back and use an Anderson plug to the solar input point. If the solar cant keep up with everything it might come to that but at this stage I'd like to use my dual battery as much as I can.

Ive had a look on ebay and there are some good prices on panels. I like the folding ones for the small size. Better than some I saw at a show on the weekend. $1099 for a 180W panel I wont be able to mount it on my racks as I have a rooftop tent and use the extra space in the front for bulky but light things. They have panels over 300W, gonna keep an eye on a few auctions and see what they go for before I start bidding.

I might have to reconsider taking a freezer too. With cryovac food and things like that I shouldn't really need it. Might have to refine my setup. Maybe a single 50L fridge is the way to go. This 12V power thing has a lot of decisions.

I definitely agree with slow charging the battery at 10% of its aH rating as opposed to just hitting it with as many amps as possible. I agree with keeping it above 50% SoC. Im hoping solar will help with this.

The inverter is for laptop, camera, drill battery etc and isn't used very often. Normally used when I'm driving too, rarely whilst stationary.

I guess my main aim it to get as much power as I can whilst I'm sitting still. I think I may have to reconsider some of my power draws though.

I'm leaning towards the 1225 so far. I just got annoyed with the salesman who only wanted to sell me the BMS for $1200 and wouldn't say a word about the 1225, so I disregarded Redarc for a while. I do like the simplicity of the Ctek, just not sure if it will like the heat. I will definatley add in a solar panel to add charge.
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Old 13-08-2013, 08:36 PM
lukereneeseth lukereneeseth is offline
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they're expensive but the best esky ive ever come across is the evakool (TIB the white ones). Eskies go on sale every now an then at B C F. One of those with dry ice on the bottom a tee towel then meat, tee towel then dry ice ontop. That should stay very cold for 4-7 days. Normal servo ice will keep it cold for 2-4 days and block ice 3-5 days. (the usual factors apply obviously)
just another option.
I've a 60L cheap ice box and 70L freezer material ice box I took over to moreton island. Found myself paying a ridiculous price for ice over there 2 days later. A mate had the white evakool esky I cringed at the price he payed, yet kept ice for the 7 days. His tip was, spend the 300 on the evakool, put a bag of normal ice in prior and when he gets to the place that sells dry ice tip the ice out and fill it up with dry ice. . . I spent $70 on frozen water that week.

Anyway, on topic I guess the best way in the end is to read as much as possible from everyone elses trial and error, don't listen too much to what the sales blokes say if their advice seems to contradict what you've read people have failed with. Then make your own decision.

You would get good use out of the battery box though. Mount a Baintech 6 way fuse box under the lid (nice and small units) poke some ciga, merit, engel, andersons, whater out the top and good for camping then throw it in the boat; run the electric, lights, sounder, etc.
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Old 15-08-2013, 06:18 AM
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I've ordered a Redarc BCDC1225. I liked the Ctek setup better but its current output would be tiny at the temps I will have to operate it at. I will sell one fridge too and use an esky instead when required. Ive redesigned my 12V system and by my calculations I should be able to run indefinitely provided I get sunny/clear days with a bit of driving mixed in. Guess ill have to park up on the Murray somewhere for a week or so to test it I like the idea of using the boat battery too. Its a heavy sucker but its 120aH would come in handy. Thanks for the advice and assistance, you made it easier for me to finally make my mind up after so many different opinions.
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Old 15-08-2013, 06:58 AM
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My head is slowly becoming a solar panel as I age..
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Old 17-08-2013, 02:58 AM
lukereneeseth lukereneeseth is offline
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good choice. the redarc is designed and built in Australia for our conditions and despite what anyone may say, u actually have to be in this country to design something for our conditions. I've seen a few adds saying the Ctek is designed for our conditions, but they're actually designed to be in the back of a camper/trailer. Redarc actually designed their line knowing the 4x4 market would back the BCDC aswell as the on road campers. Hence built to with stand heat and nocks far more than the Ctek ever will, being mounted under the bonnet.

The Ctek works for me because I have it boxed in my tray next to the battery.

Good luck with the install.
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Old 17-08-2013, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by yellaterra View Post
My head is slowly becoming a solar panel as I age..
tell me about it. Got a hair cut yesterday, I reckon I can start asking for a discount due to it not taking as long as it use to.


I would definitely be using the Ctek if it was anywhere outside of the engine bay. I had a bit of buyers regret once I laid it all out and contemplated mounting a battery and Ctek in my drawers. The solar changeover relay is annoying to place. The Ctek is physically bigger but its an all in one unit. 4 wires to the Ctek and its done. The redarc added quite a few more wires to the engine bay. It all appears to be working though. Havent gotten a solar panel yet but I put some volts through it with a power supply and it all switched over as it should.
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