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Old 25-05-2016, 08:46 AM
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Cutting through the B.S. - The “Mono” Vs Fluoro’ debate.

Here's an interesting article.

"I believe it’s Lefty that is credited with saying “There’s more bullshit in fly fishing than in a Texas cattle yard” (excuse the French)

A phrase that is no more apt than when citing the 'Fluoro vs Mono' discussion.

What is “Mono’”
Monofilament correctly refers to a single extrusion of line regardless of the material it is constructed from - as opposed to braided or multifilament lines. Fluorocarbon as we are discussing it falls into the Mono’ group

For better or worse, Mono’ has come to describe a single extruded line made from a variety of plastics, but most commonly nylon. In truth the vast majority of leaders and tippets we use as fly anglers are in fact Monofilament by definition.

Modern lines are very different than the single extruded nylons of yesteryear, and most certainly worlds apart from the “Cat gut” my Granddad used.

Fluorocarbon aside for the moment - Most modern mono’s are formulated from mixtures of complex thermoplastics and polymers, many are treated, annealed, coated and some even pre stretched to improve strength, abrasion resistance, UV resistance and overall performance - and, some are not.

It’s my view that a lot of what we have come to believe about the properties of Fluorocarbon is little more than “received wisdom” from the marketing department. Many of the features of fluorocarbon are often over generously promoted as benefits. And much of it, in practical terms at least - is just plain wrong.

Here are a few of the more common misconceptions:

Fluorocarbon is not “stretchy”
Under load Fluoro' stretches virtually the same amount as nylon based materials. However Nylon has greater elasticity - that is, it tends to recover from that stretch when load is removed. Fluoro' tends to stay elongated, and weakened as a result.

Like nylon based materials, fluorocarbon lines can stretch as little as 20% before failure or as much as 30%.

Fluorocarbon is denser than Nylon, and denser material does a better job of transmitting energy. This is perhaps why some anglers say they get a better “feel” when using Fluoro and perhaps where the "Fluoro doesn’t stretch" misnomer comes from.

Being more dense than water, it is correct that Fluoro' essentially does not absorb water. While on paper it would seem that Fluoro' would then sink, this effect is negligible and in reality not quickly enough or with sufficient force to be of much use to fly anglers.

Cast out flat and relatively straight Fluorocarbon usually does not fully break the waters surface tension. If pulled under by the weight of a fly, it will sink - very slowly, but not to have any appreciable effect on the sink rate of the fly. A Fluoro leader does not “pull” a weighted fly down into the water column by any appreciable measure.

My observations are that both nylon and fluorocarbon leaders will sink if they break the surface tension. Both can be treated with a floatant or a sinking agent such as a fullers earth mixture to affect the desired result.

Fluorocarbon is invisible to fish.
While it is true that the refractive light index of Fluoro is closer to that of water than nylon (and hence virtually invisible to fish apparently) - this common misconception is in my opinion the single biggest load of garbage out there.

Having filmed and photographed fish, leaders and tippets for over 10 years (top side and underwater) I have never been able to see any appreciable difference between the two.

We’ve looked at tippet material in glasses of water, controlled aquariums and in fresh and saltwater at all sorts of depths and angles - It’s easily seen. My observations have been that both materials appear equally visible against a wide range of backgrounds. And I’m pretty certain my eyes and camera lens are not nearly as well adapted at seeing underwater as those of any fish I’ve observed.

In short, fish can see tippet, regardless of what material it is constructed from. My arbitrary observations aside, there have been a number scientific studies done on this. One such example is Jeff Thomson “Mathematical Theory of Fishing Line Visibility"
Strength
For a given cross sectional diameter a high quality nylon material has appreciably higher break strength than Fluorocarbon. Knot strength, tensile strength, shock strength - you name it, Fluoro' consistently comes second.
However - Do keep in mind that a cheap untreated nylon material will absorb water over time which in turn will appreciably decrease strength - by as much as 20% according to some studies. It’s also important to temper this with the fact that most top manufacturers produce coated and tempered material in order to address this characteristic and also improve UV and abrasion resistance.

Stroft Tippet and leaders - extremely strong
Stroft leader and tippet is a good example of an extremely high quality annealed and coated nylon based material. It is extremely strong and has a very low diameter.



Why “test” vs diameter matters.
The superior strength of nylon based material allows us to fish thinner tippets, and while they can still be observed, a thinner tippet will allow a fly to be behave more naturally on the water - particularly important for small dries and emergers where that elusive drag free drift is all important.

Abrasion Resistance:
Certainly a consideration when fishing the salt over Coral and rough ground, but probably of negligible benefit for most trout angers. In saying that, "hard mono” and modern annealed and coated nylon products offer abrasion resistance on par with Fluorocarbon and with the most desirable superior knot and tensile strengths - and are a third of the cost Fluorocarbon.

My advice to most trout anglers, and particularly those starting out is to save a few bucks and go for a good quality Nylon material over fluorocarbon.

If you’re working towards “Zero defects” and doing as much as possible to help tip the odds in your favour. I’d first go for very sharp, high quality hooks, good nylon, impeccable knots and most importantly - a well practiced fly cast.
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Old 25-05-2016, 09:18 AM
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BFL, can you reference the article please.
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Old 25-05-2016, 09:25 AM
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BFL, can you reference the article please.
http://swiftflyfishing.com/blogs/new...-fluoro-debate
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Old 25-05-2016, 05:50 PM
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Yeah I've swapped from fc rock fluro to maxima ultragreen about 6 months ago. Like the article says, no appreciably difference so far
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Old 25-05-2016, 05:53 PM
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...... other than being a third the cost
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Old 25-05-2016, 06:29 PM
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I use mostly spinning fluoro for my leaders for the same reasons. Cheaper and better knot tying.

I always thought about trying a good old Maxima as a leader and see for myself if it makes any difference.

Baitos are still catching them on 8lb mono so why not?
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Old 25-05-2016, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by panger View Post
Yeah I've swapped from fc rock fluro to maxima ultragreen about 6 months ago. Like the article says, no appreciably difference so far
Quote:
Originally Posted by panger View Post
...... other than being a third the cost
Yeah I switched to berkley trilene a while back for all my leaders - and I'm still catching just as few fish as I used to

I wouldnt 100% recommend trilene in the lighter strains - the batches I have are a little grippy when tying uni knots - havent lost any fish as a result but I suspect the friction, as I tighten the knot, isnt ideal for maintaining strength. I'm starting to wish I got the Maxima Ultragreen
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Old 25-05-2016, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex View Post
I use mostly spinning fluoro for my leaders for the same reasons. Cheaper and better knot tying.

I always thought about trying a good old Maxima as a leader and see for myself if it makes any difference.

Baitos are still catching them on 8lb mono so why not?
Yeah after reading this book and looking at all the under water photos of different lines - making the switch back to mono was easy. (plus getting outfished by a bloke using trilene didnt make the transition any harder)
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Old 25-05-2016, 06:52 PM
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I think the reason it so easy to believe that flouro is almost invisible underwater is because very few of us have got under the water and had a look And it makes you feel smart when you tell novices about the "refractive light index"
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Old 25-05-2016, 06:59 PM
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Interesting topic and info. I used to use fluro leaders in light line classes without any problems but since swapping to chasing larger species on 60-80lb leaders there is no other option than mono as fluros are twice as thick, way too hard and don't knot well. Think if I go back to light fishing it will be mono all the way.
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Old 25-05-2016, 07:08 PM
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Abrasion resistance
Abrasion resistance
Abrasion resistance

Get two lengths of 20lb mono and fluro of similar cost/quality.

Now tell me the mono has superior abrasion resistance. It dosent it never will.

Ive never been rubbed off on a trout like this guy is talking about hence why he dosent seem to really make much of the abrasion issue. ,But i have been rubbed off by gill plates, teeth both canines and molars, scales, fins, rocks, coral, pylons, boat hulls.... the list goes on.

Mono leaders absorb violent casts or heavy baits both natural and artificial. I use it for spinning the surf (need the softness to absorbs 100's of whipping casts ) and i use it straight through for drummer groper (need the stretch ) and live baiting in the surf (heavy baits )

For nearly every other fishing technique i can think of, the superior abrasion resistance of flurocarbon is the king.
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Old 25-05-2016, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laddercat View Post
Abrasion resistance
Abrasion resistance
Abrasion resistance

Get two lengths of 20lb mono and fluro of similar cost/quality.

Now tell me the mono has superior abrasion resistance. It dosent it never will.

Ive never been rubbed off on a trout like this guy is talking about hence why he dosent seem to really make much of the abrasion issue. ,But i have been rubbed off by gill plates, teeth both canines and molars, scales, fins, rocks, coral, pylons, boat hulls.... the list goes on.

Mono leaders absorb violent casts or heavy baits both natural and artificial. I use it for spinning the surf (need the softness to absorbs 100's of whipping casts ) and i use it straight through for drummer groper (need the stretch ) and live baiting in the surf (heavy baits )

For nearly every other fishing technique i can think of, the superior abrasion resistance of flurocarbon is the king.
Is that because 20lb flouro is thicker than 20lb mono
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Old 25-05-2016, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by yellow door 1 View Post
Is that because 20lb flouro is thicker than 20lb mono
Dosent this guys article make the point that fish can easily see both types regardless so if one is slightly thicker then the other it is negligible ??

Hence why not choose the line which has superior abrasion resistance for most applications ?
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Old 25-05-2016, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by laddercat View Post
Dosent this guys article make the point that fish can easily see both types regardless so if one is slightly thicker then the other it is negligible ??

Hence why not choose the line which has superior abrasion resistance for most applications ?
If 20lb flouro is thicker than 20 pound mono - I can see why it performs better in abrasion resistance tests.
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Old 25-05-2016, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by yellow door 1 View Post
If 20lb flouro is thicker than 20 pound mono - I can see why it performs better in abrasion resistance tests.
that is assuming that abrasion resistance is completely reliant on thickness alone, which we all know it is not. It only takes passing the two through your fingers running your nails over them and you can quite easily deduce which will stand up better to abrasion.


All the invisible stuff is total bullshit, i agree completely. But to choose mono over flurocarbon for abrasion resistance is lunacy.
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