Baning stinger hooks

[Gaffer]

Having never used a stinger rig, I probably shouldn't comment, but I think if people feel they must use a stinger, they should fish it barbless and carry a good fine guage disgorger on them to help them retrieve it.

Personally I wont be using them... especially after reading Bubba's above argument.

Gaff

[Dave Press]

Originally posted by bubba
I voted to ban stinger hooks and it was something I was going to bring up with WABT this weekend anyway. My feelings are that any additional chance that a hook needs to be left inside a fish are unacceptable.
We are promoting catch and release tournaments with the emphasis on keeping the fish as healthy as possible. We spends alot of money on livewells and aeratoers to do this and we also pass it onto the general public that we are a responsible organisation.
People in this thread have said that they have caught fish on stingers and only x number have been deep hooked. Then there are pictures on the forum that show fish gut hooked and the only way to get the hook out is to cut the line and let it rust out.
Unacceptable!
There is no reason to use them. Ever. Period. THere are people (including myself) that crush the barbs on trebles and jig hooks to allow for easy removal. Now while it cant be enforced I also recommend people do it but stinger are just plain nasty.
Ban them I say

My sentiments exactly...only he didnt ramble and got the point across...lol

[Bear]

It's an interesting argument guys, but if I use that reasoning then should we not extent it to only one treble on a HB as I've lost count the number of times I've seen photos with the second treble is a bream's eye. Can't be good either and they aren't really needed either if I take that reasoning.

I don't personally think it's that black and white for any tournament organiser.

[bubba]

Thanks Dave . Strange thing is I usually tend to ramble :P

Bear, something to take into account is the fact that while treble hooks do exist they are STANDARD on all hardbodies. Yes you are right they catch in teh eye sometimes (Ive seen it) but the simple fact is that is how the manufacturer made them. Perhaps a way of looking at it is that if the tackle is non standard (apart from hook upgrades) then perhaps it shouldnt be used.
Im not talking about tungsten weights etc but take the issue they had with bill wraps when fishing with bill fish. Now that was deemed an unfair advantage as well as a larger possibility of damaging the fish.


This will not limit experimentation etc BUT what it will do is give clear guidelines as to what is acceptable.
Remember the days when people ised to put trebles on the back of gang hooks for tailor. It caused a HUGE outcry when conservationists (amongst others) noticed the damage it was causing to fish.
My point is that stingers are not part of stanard tackle. They have the ability to cause additional harm to the fish AND can add an unfair advantage to the angler (PLEASE NOTE: THIS HAS NO REFERENCE TO CHEATING!)
I would like to see barbless hooks mandatory as well but lets take 1 step at a time

[Bear]

That's my next problem though Bubba. If I take the 'add an unfair advantage to the angler', the how do I deal with things like catch scents etc. Are these any different an advantage than stinger hooks. They work better for anglers who seem to have experimented with them, similar position to those who have experimented with stingers.

Next, do I then extend this to anglers who have experimented with drop shotting or carolina rigs who use a similar method of hook placement? None of these are standard to a point, but are now excepted practices. The other things here is that stingers may be new to bream, but have been an accepted method in bass fishing for many years.

[bubba]

Well I think I covered the first part of your question by stating it is in the normal use of the tackle. I certainly think that is fair enough. The other point is that the scents DONT damage the fish. This is the primary issue here.

We cant use Bass as an exaple purely because it is far easier to remove the hook from a Bass than a Bream (Very large mouth).

This is all about protecting the fish as much as we possibly can. The unfair advantage part was used as a secondary but certainly not something that should be over looked. We all know that hooking them can do some damage but we cant really avoid that in our sport. What we dont want to do is create more chances for damage. Thats the point.
Carolina, Drop shot, Texas etc are all well known and utilised methods of catching fish that DONT have a 2nd hook trailing of the primary with the sole intention of being a backup of the jig.

Look its your call. Im not going to push the point (although perhaps I should) but I feel quite strongly that we need to ban them, regardless of if we think it causes no damage to the fish.

Perhaps one of the Bass comp guys can comment on the use of stingers.

[Dave Press]

Just one other problem I have is the fact that a singer hook has the potential to come away from the plastic, and in doing so become and illegal tactic in that its a loose second hook (forgotten the term for this practise). This therefore opens the way for cheating, by someone simply claiming they were fishing a stinger and the hook came away from the plastic by itself.

I understand where Bear is coming from and I certainly dont envy being in his position, these sort of decisions are very hard to make. You want to be careful of limiting techniques, as in doing so you will limit innovation and the possibility of new techniques being uncovered.

In this case, I dont like stinger hooks...I find the addition somewhat unfair. This is my opinion and I dont have any qualms with those who use stingers.

[brad mcdonald]

does the size of the plastic have any impact on weather a second hook is ok? eg all hard bodys have two hooks and most would top out a 100mm i guess for bream. and having to sets of hooks is ok on a hard body right? so why not have two hooks on a 150mm long soft plastic.....

i'd be quite happy with a ban as they are not a huge part of how i fish .... tough call though.

[Richo]

Originally posted by bubba
I voted to ban stinger hooks and it was something I was going to bring up with WABT this weekend anyway. My feelings are that any additional chance that a hook needs to be left inside a fish are unacceptable.
We are promoting catch and release tournaments with the emphasis on keeping the fish as healthy as possible. We spends alot of money on livewells and aeratoers to do this and we also pass it onto the general public that we are a responsible organisation.

I had this conversation with Nic on Saturday heading out to Sewello`s, he was for them and I was against them, and my argument pretty much came back to something similar to what Bubba waffled above. And in the end we agreed that there are merits on both sides of the argument, but in the end we are C&R and shouldnt be adding anything that could jeopardise a successful release. I could tell Nic wasnt entirely convinced by my argument though.

Does anyone know where ABT stands on stinger hooks?

I shall find out.

cheers

[Bear]

I don't think ABT have a problem at the moment Richo as I used the method at the Blackwood comp and was not picked up for it.

[peter_d]

with all this debate it poses an interesting situation. what happens if you are the boater and against stingers your nb is pro stingers what prevails?? and also the reverse? interesting problem isn't it.


do you as boater and in charge of your boat declare the stinger a non starter ??

[Richo]

GDay Pete,

I would have thought each to their own, Boaters shouldnt be able to dictate what lures are used on thier boat and probably wouldnt anyway. Right now they are good to go, and nobody can stop you using them.

cheers

[Bear]

My thoughts as well Richo. A boater cannot stop his\her nb of using any lure they wish.

HTH.

[BIG PETE]

things could be uncomfortable on a boat if you didnt agree on a method used

[Richo]

Pete Id say it would be more uncomfortable for the boater when facing his peers on thier return, word would get around and Id assume they know quite quickly that they over stepped the mark. Something that wouldnt be tolerated by WABT. Personally Id be quite disappointed to hear of this.



cheers